TRANSCRIPT: Book Chat—The Forest For The Trees, by Betsy Lerner

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by Lia Keyes on July 29, 2010 · 2 comments

in Transcripts

I was nervous about how well we could really discuss a book on writing in 140 character soundbites but it was a lot of fun tonight, and many people who hadn’t yet read the book scurried off to do so on the basis of the chat, so I think we can count that as a success!

Many, many thanks to Kristi at The Editorial Department (@editorialdept) for hosting the chat with thought-provoking questions and for whittling down the essence of our book choice to fit the Twitter format. I know she has a lot more to say on the subject, and you may all have more questions, so the chat is ongoing at our ScribeChat Book Club e-mail list at:

The ScribeChat Book Club

But now, to the transcript:

11:44 pm inkgypsy: RT @LiaKeyes: We’re discussing @BetsyLerner ‘s wonderful book, The Forest For The Trees, on #ScribeChat at 6 pm PST / 9 pm EST tonight! (just over 1 hr)
11:55 pm editorialdept: Counting down to #scribechat in 1 hour. Hosting discussion on The Forest for the Trees: An Editor’s Advice to Writers. http://bit.ly/9wj6JH
July 30, 2010
12:01 am Danisidhe: RT @editorialdept: Counting down to #scribechat in 1 hour. Hosting discussion on The Forest for the Trees
12:35 am laurelrusswurm: ooohhh… it’s awfully quiet in here. #scribechat
12:42 am laurelrusswurm: @laurelrusswurm *sigh* #scribechat
12:51 am editorialdept: Back online and ready to chat! Counting down the minutes… #scribechat
12:51 am LiaKeyes: @laurelrusswurm LOL – Hi, Laurel! We’re scurrying around getting our last minute snacks and drinks. :) #scribechat
12:53 am LiaKeyes: Tonight’s chat is hosted by @editorialdept, who’ll lead us through a discussion of @BetsyLerner ‘s bk The Forest For The Trees #scribechat
12:53 am editorialdept: @LiaKeyes I’ve got the laptop set up in the kitchen so I can whip up a quick dinner w/out missing anything. <–is nerd #scribechat
12:59 am teetate: Evening everyone. #scribechat
1:01 am phoebeeating: hello hello all! #scribechat
1:01 am LiaKeyes: How many of you had time to finish reading The Forest For The Trees? #scribechat
1:01 am Danisidhe: Grabbing some hazelnut coffee :) #scribechat
1:01 am teetate: @phoebeeating hey you! LOL I’m about 95% done w/ my edits thanks to you! #scribechat
1:02 am teetate: @LiaKeyes Finished it today at work. #scribechat
1:02 am LiaKeyes: @Danisidhe @phoebeeating Good to see you both! #scribechat
1:02 am editorialdept: @teetate ha! that’s dedication #scribechat
1:02 am phoebeeating: @LiaKeyes I read it about a year ago, but didn’t have time to reread. Will try not to muck up the chat with my hazy memories! #scribechat
1:02 am PattyJMurphy: helloooo everyone:) #scribechat
1:02 am LiaKeyes: @teetate Good job! I did, too, while standing in line at the DMV. ;) #scribechat
1:03 am EbonyMcKenna: Hello all. I’m writing, but also lurking here a bit. Trying this ‘multi tasking’ thing :-D #scribechat
1:03 am teetate: @editorialdept heh, told you I’d finish. I keep my word. :) #scribechat
1:03 am phoebeeating: @teetate SO glad I could help! Haven’t gotten a chance to peek at yours, but looking forward to it. #scribechat
1:03 am SolomonInkwell: Hello there, #scribechat. Let’s see how long I can keep my keyboard working! #scribechat
1:03 am teetate: @phoebeeating hope I did it justice. LOVED that short. #scribechat
1:03 am LiaKeyes: @PattyJMurphy Hi, Patty and Ebony! Lurking is fine. Feel free to leap in with a question even if you haven’t read the book. :) #scribechat
1:04 am teetate: @EbonyMcKenna hey, sweetie! #scribechat
1:04 am HeatherMcCorkle: @EbonyMcKenna Me too! #writing and chatting! #scribechat
1:04 am phoebeeating: @teetate <3 Thanks doll. #scribechat
1:04 am a_crezo: Lurking at #scribechat. Haven’t read the book, feeling like a wallflower. LOL #scribechat
1:05 am EbonyMcKenna: @teetate Hi right back. #scribechat
1:05 am phoebeeating: @EbonyMcKenna Hey Ebony–I’m doing the same. Hope we can keep up with both #scribechat and #amwriting
1:05 am LiaKeyes: Our host for tonight is @editorialdept, so I’ll hand you over to her…. #scribechat
1:05 am rllafevers: Okay, I’m actually going to try a chat and see if I can keep my head from exploding. #scribechat
1:05 am a_crezo: @teetate :D Just observing. Pretend you don’t see me. #scribechat
1:06 am LiaKeyes: @a_crezo Hey, maybe we’ll get your curiosity up so you’ll end up reading it. I found it very helpful, particularly the first ch #scribechat
1:06 am teetate: @a_crezo That, is impossible. You’re so shiny. #scribechat
1:06 am PattyJMurphy: Hi,@rllafevers….sooo good to see you here. Welcome! #scribechat
1:06 am a_crezo: @LiaKeyes That’s exactly why I’m here. #scribechat
1:06 am LiaKeyes: @rllafevers Hi, Robin! We’re discussing The Forest For The Trees by Betsy Lerner, which I’ve just read for the first time #scribechat
1:07 am a_crezo: @teetate Well I also smell like rainclouds but you can’t know that. #scribechat
1:07 am editorialdept: I’m going to dive into book chat here. The overall impression I got from the book was summed up in this quote: #scribechat
1:07 am editorialdept: “the reader doesn’t care what you went through to produce your work” #scribechat
1:07 am editorialdept: Despite all the behind-the-scenes info, and insight into editorial process, it all boils down to “the reader doesn’t care”… #scribechat
1:08 am Story_Craft: FYI #storycraft -ers #scribechat is starting. Today we are discussing Betsy Learner’s book on writing: The Forest for the Trees.
1:08 am LiaKeyes: LOL. Largely true! RT @editorialdept: “the reader doesnt care what you went through to produce your work” #scribechat
1:08 am HeatherMcCorkle: Love that, so true! RT @editorialdept “the reader doesn’t care what you went through to produce your work” #scribechat #scribechat
1:08 am editorialdept: With all the tales of neurotic authors and crazed publicity meetings, it’s easy to see how ego & fear can get in the way #scribechat
1:08 am phoebeeating: RT @editorialdept: “the reader doesn’t care what you went through to produce your work” #scribechat
1:09 am teetate: @editorialdept it’s a bit putting on a play, no one cares how hard you worked, just as long as they’re entertained. #scribechat
1:09 am rllafevers: @LiaKeyes Hi Lia! Luckily, I’ve read that book, even tho I didn’t know it was assigned reading. #scribechat
1:09 am leithliterary: http://miniurl.com/47902 #sarabareilles #music #scribechat #writechat Pop songs as short fiction and the feel/think of word choice.
1:09 am EbonyMcKenna: @editorialdept So true – the reader just wants a good story. #scribechat
1:09 am editorialdept: At the same time, I was impressed by the level of care and compassion Lerner has for her clients, despite the diva behavior #scribechat
1:09 am rllafevers: @PattyJMurphy Thanks Patty! I just downloaded tweetchat, so maybe that will make things easier. :-) #scribechat
1:09 am Danisidhe: @editorialdept I’d like to add: “but a good agent might” to your summary :) There was lots of compassion between those pages! #scribechat
1:10 am maryfranholm: RT @a_crezo Lurking at #scribechat. Haven’t read the book, feeling like a wallflower. LOL #scribechat// Me too.
1:10 am LiaKeyes: @rllafevers We’ve just started a book club for how to write books, and this is our first go at discussing one! #scribechat
1:10 am teetate: @editorialdept she certainly was honest about it and I respected that a lot. Also loved her ‘insider’ stories. Great perspective #scribechat
1:10 am editorialdept: As writers, what impressions did you all have of the book? Any big take-aways? #scribechat
1:10 am LiaKeyes: @Danisidhe For me, the first chapter, on ambivalent writers, struck a lot of chords. #scribechat
1:11 am phoebeeating: That was an interesting tension in the book: all these stories abt nutty writers, but the pt was how irrelevant the writer is #scribechat
1:11 am PattyJMurphy: The reader just cares that we put our best stuff between the pages:) #scribechat
1:11 am wholewidewords: I relate to this quote. Used to be a musician, and no one cared if I spent billions of hours practicing, or none. #scribechat
1:11 am teetate: @editorialdept It was eye opening for me. I knew the gist of how publishing wrks, this gave me details. #scribechat
1:11 am LiaKeyes: @editorialdept I found that first chapter made me feel less of a freak and like I must be in a lot of good company. :) #scribechat
1:12 am editorialdept: @LiaKeyes just like scribechat :) #scribechat
1:12 am EbonyMcKenna: #scribechat – confession. Haven’t read Forest for the Trees, but ordering a copy right now :-D
1:12 am teetate: @LiaKeyes I felt that way a lot in reading this book. #scribechat
1:12 am LiaKeyes: @LiaKeyes I also liked the way it was organized, the types of writers up front, then the inside info on publishing in 2nd half #scribechat
1:12 am phoebeeating: @editorialdept EVERYTHING she said about her MFA experience made me nod. Mine (also in poetry, dif. school) was very similar. #scribechat
1:13 am PattyJMurphy: RT @LiaKeyes: @editorialdept I found that 1st chap made me feel less of a freak + like I must be in a lot of good company <<LOL #scribechat
1:13 am EbonyMcKenna: @wholewidewords Exactly – good comparison with musicians – it’s assumed you’ve put in hours of practise anyway? #scribechat
1:13 am HeatherMcCorkle: @EbonyMcKenna True. I think readers become interested in the author only after they love the author’s work, not before! #scribechat
1:13 am teetate: @phoebeeating Two words: Truman Capote. Niiiiice #scribechat
1:13 am Danisidhe: @editorialdept @liakeyes I think many people may have trouble with that first chapter because the think they are unique hehe #scribechat
1:14 am LiaKeyes: @editorialdept I also liked the stories of writers like Dickens, and what motivated them to write (need for approval/attention) #scribechat
1:14 am editorialdept: I was surprised to find out which author archetype I agreed with – expected to be an entirely different one. Which ones are you? #scribechat
1:15 am PattyJMurphy: @Danisidhe: But, we are unique…uniquely different:) #scribechat
1:15 am editorialdept: RT @HeatherMcCorkle: True. I think readers become interested in the author only after they love the authors work, not before! #scribechat
1:15 am LiaKeyes: @Danisidhe The stories made me realize those who don’t know what to write about aren’t listening to their hurt inner child #scribechat
1:15 am a_crezo: OK, you got me. Just bought a copy of The Forest for the Trees. #scribechat
1:16 am wholewidewords: @EbonyMcKenna No one cared if I’d broken up w/someone, or had a death in the family. U either performed well or u didn’t y’know? #scribechat
1:16 am HeatherMcCorkle: It sounds like I must get this book. I’m so glad I dropped in! I’m always on the lookout for another great book on the craft. #scribechat
1:16 am teetate: @editorialdept Mostly, ambivalent writer and the neurotic. One more than the other on any given day. #scribechat
1:16 am Danisidhe: @LiaKeyes or just aren’t writers :) #scribechat
1:16 am LiaKeyes: SCORE! LOL @BetsyLerner RT @a_crezo: OK, you got me. Just bought a copy of The Forest for the Trees. #scribechat
1:17 am teetate: @a_crezo Yay! #scribechat
1:17 am EbonyMcKenna: http://is.gd/dRQNu #scribechat Forest for the Trees, Betsy Lerner at Bookdepository if anyone’s interested :-D
1:17 am wholewidewords: What are the diff archetypes? If someone will just name them… #scribechat
1:18 am teetate: RT @EbonyMcKennahttp://is.gd/dRQNu #scribechat Forest for the Trees, Betsy Lerner at Bookdepository if anyones interested :-D #scribechat
1:18 am lioncaller: So when would it come up, as far as reader is concerned, what you went thru to write your book? #scribechat
1:18 am LiaKeyes: For those who want to join the discussion of @BetsyLerner‘s The Forest For The Trees:http://tweetchat.com/room/scribechat :) #scribechat
1:18 am EbonyMcKenna: @wholewidewords so true. The audience won’t give you any slack either. They want good music :-) #scribechat
1:18 am Danisidhe: @PattyJMurphy When it comes to our pain, noone is unique – the expression MIGHT be, but the pain isn’t. #scribechat
1:18 am editorialdept: I thought I’d be neurotic, but identified strongly w/ the natural. not in that it comes easily, but in that I’m compelled 2 wrt #scribechat
1:18 am teetate: @wholewidewords Ambivalent writer, the natural, the wicked child, the self-promoter, the neurotic. #scribechat
1:19 am nathanhenrion: @teetate I’m going to be like the annoying drunk dude who crashes your party #scribechat What’s Up Ladies!!!! Wooohooo! PARTY!
1:19 am HeatherMcCorkle: Okay, I’m ordering my copy. http://tinyurl.com/24rnfel And recommending it to my crit group! #scribechat
1:19 am LiaKeyes: @nathanhenrion FUNNY! Did you bring the booze? #scribechat
1:19 am wholewidewords: @teetate Thanks, Tee! Getting the book now, yay… #scribechat
1:20 am teetate: @editorialdept I feel that there are many facets to each that identify with. I don’t think just one label fits. #scribechat
1:20 am teetate: @nathanhenrion Oh look, it’s Mr. Twitter. LOL hey buddy. #scribechat
1:20 am EbonyMcKenna: @wholewidewords Character archetypes – about 12 of them? http://is.gd/dRR55 #scribechat
1:20 am teetate: @wholewidewords my pleasure. #scribechat
1:20 am LiaKeyes: @teetate Yes, there are probably bits of each archetype in all of us, but one or two will be most relatable. #scribechat
1:21 am HeatherMcCorkle: @nathanhenrion Seconded, my glass is almost empty: @LiaKeyes FUNNY! Did you bring the booze? #scribechat
1:21 am wholewidewords: @EbonyMcKenna No slack & no mercy! Except, as a reader, I try hard to understand where an author’s coming from. Esp. a fave one #scribechat
1:21 am editorialdept: Also, this book was written in 2000. I wonder how much has changed in light of electronic submissions, etc. #scribechat
1:22 am teetate: @editorialdept I was thinking that especially toward the end when she mention electronic rights. #scribechat
1:22 am LiaKeyes: @editorialdept I think I read on her blog that a new edition is coming out soon. Not sure how different it will be. #scribechat
1:22 am phoebeeating: @editorialdept I read the 1st ed abt a year ago–it was very negative about electronic submissions. Has it been updated? #scribechat
1:22 am HeatherMcCorkle: @editorialdept Great question & it brings up a good point. It’s interesting how much tech has changed but good writing hasn’t! #scribechat
1:22 am wholewidewords: @EbonyMcKenna I try to give musicians/other artists a break, too. We can’t all be on our game every note or every paragraph! #scribechat
1:23 am teetate: @HeatherMcCorkle exactly! #scribechat
1:23 am Danisidhe: @editorialdept According to my little coloured flags, I related most to The Natural and The Neurotic chapters. #scribechat
1:23 am phoebeeating: @LiaKeyes Ah, nevermind, thought the new one came out already. #scribechat #duh
1:23 am lioncaller: @LynReader I can see it being of interest during a reading, if readers ask… #scribechat Or on Oprah. :D
1:23 am editorialdept: “the challenge to continue producing in the face of both creative blocks & what can amt to paralyzing fear…fact of wrtng life” #scribechat
1:23 am teetate: @HeatherMcCorkle I think that’s the bottom line: forget genre, forget market, the only that, ultimately matters is the writing. #scribechat
1:23 am LiaKeyes: Betsy’s blog is here: http://betsylerner.wordpress.com/ #scribechat
1:24 am teetate: @HeatherMcCorkle and I mean in terms of getting your stuff out there. I’m not naive. I know there are other factors. #scribechat
1:24 am LiaKeyes: I think I’ve got a bit of the Wicked Child archetype in me, too. :) #scribechat
1:24 am EbonyMcKenna: @wholewidewords musicians have rehearsals, writers have drafts and editing, so we can be at our best when it counts #scribechat
1:24 am HeatherMcCorkle: @teetate So true! Which is exactly why THE PASSAGE was bought even though most say the vampire craze is over. #scribechat
1:25 am EbonyMcKenna: Thanks for that RT @LiaKeyes: Betsy’s blog is here: http://is.gd/dRRvF #scribechat
1:25 am editorialdept: As an office supply fetishist (neurotic), I loved her gentle reminder that “none of this is writing. It’s stalling” #scribechat
1:25 am HeatherMcCorkle: @LiaKeyes Wicked child archtype, I just love the sound of that! Can’t wait to get this book! #scribechat
1:25 am Danisidhe: @editorialdept I found it odd that she essentially says don’t write if you’re not compelled to, then separates “naturals”… #scribechat
1:25 am teetate: @HeatherMcCorkle yep. #scribechat
1:26 am phoebeeating: @HeatherMcCorkle & more importantly, why it’s done so well. Readers often don’t seem to care about “trends.” #scribechat
1:26 am editorialdept: @Danisidhe I think “natural” was a misnomer in this case. It certainly didn’t describe someone for whom writing is easy #scribechat
1:26 am wholewidewords: @HeatherMcCorkle I loved, loved, loved The PASSAGE. Got it b/c I like the vampire stuff, loved it for way different reasons! #scribechat
1:27 am phoebeeating: @editorialdept Hmm . . . she’d probably consider #scribechat stalling, huh? :)
1:27 am HeatherMcCorkle: @phoebeeating That’s so true! It’s a shame the industry can’t be the same. But they have to be foreward thinking I suppose. #scribechat
1:27 am HeatherMcCorkle: @wholewidewords I haven’t read it yet. Sounds like I should! #scribechat
1:28 am Danisidhe: @editorialdept New edition due out Oct 4th lol http://ht.ly/2iBT3 #scribechat
1:28 am editorialdept: @phoebeeating ha! I’m afraid so. It’d take the pressure off of her to be the author’s sole support network, so maybe it’s ok! #scribechat
1:28 am LiaKeyes: YEP! But inspirational, too RT @phoebeeating: @editorialdept Hmm . . . shed probably consider #scribechat stalling, huh? :) #scribechat
1:28 am nathanhenrion: @HeatherMcCorkle Vampire books will be in demand for another 3-5 years #scribechat
1:28 am HeatherMcCorkle: @nathanhenrion Good to hear, cause I love them! #scribechat
1:28 am wholewidewords: In my old field, music, there were many naturally gifted musicians who weren’t compelled to make it their life’s work. #scribechat
1:29 am LiaKeyes: THANKS! RT @Danisidhe: @editorialdept New edition due out Oct 4th lol http://ht.ly/2iBT3#scribechat
1:29 am teetate: @nathanhenrion even the done-to-death angsty, I vant you types? The Passage was different in that regard. #scribechat
1:30 am editorialdept: Guess that takes care of Oct. book club book ;) RT @Danisidhe: New edition due out Oct 4th lolhttp://ht.ly/2iBT3 #scribechat
1:30 am phoebeeating: @wholewidewords True for writing, too. I’ve known so many brilliant writers who don’t write at all anymore. #scribechat
1:30 am RDSPress: ~pokes her head in to watch #scribechat~
1:30 am jaymgates: ~pokes her head in to watch #scribechat~
1:30 am teetate: @nathanhenrion bit like ‘I Am Legend’ the film, not the book. Vry different vamps between the two. #scribechat
1:30 am wholewidewords: @HeatherMcCorkleI thought it was fantastic! Hope you read it & get back to me. #minibookclub#scribechat
1:31 am LisaMPotts: @LiaKeyes It’s in my shopping cart at Amazon. #scribechat
1:31 am thedaisyharris: Hey- is this almost over? What was the question? #scribechat
1:31 am LiaKeyes: @jaymgates @RDSPress Hi, you two! Thanks for letting us know you’re listening in. We’re chatting about The Forest For The Trees #scribechat
1:31 am editorialdept: The most important take-away, for me, was advice to keep working on your next book before/during debut novel’s release. So impt! #scribechat
1:32 am LiaKeyes: GREAT! RT @LisaMPotts: @LiaKeyes Its in my shopping cart at Amazon. #scribechat
1:32 am wholewidewords: @phoebeeating Yes! Some of my music student friends, all brill, were forced to play, or just didn’t have the passion. #scribechat
1:32 am overdunne: Hi all! I’m lurking in the margins. Didn’t get a chance to get the book, but thought I could follow along… #scribechat
1:32 am junegoodwin: What’s the topic tonight? #scribechat
1:32 am teetate: @editorialdept yes! I really appreciated that. Best way to not go mad, get straight into the next book. #scribechat
1:33 am LiaKeyes: @editorialdept The most important take away for me was to make peace with one’s neuroses and let them fuel the writing! #scribechat
1:33 am teetate: @overdunne Hi honey! Welcome. #scribechat
1:33 am HeatherMcCorkle: @wholewidewords I will, thank you for the recommendation! #scribechat
1:33 am wholewidewords: @teetate The Passage had no hot Emo vamps, that’s for sure! #scribechat
1:33 am nathanhenrion: @teetate I just see the high demand not diminishing on titles releasing through next August…so everyone thinks it’ll continue #scribechat
1:33 am laurelrusswurm: RT @editorialdept: most important take-awaywas advice to keep working on your next book before/during debut novels release. #scribechat
1:33 am LiaKeyes: @junegoodwin Hi, there, we’re discussing Betsy Lerner’s The Forest For The Trees, written by an editor #scribechat
1:34 am HeatherMcCorkle: @teetate That’s exactly how I stay sane while I’m on submission to editors. Write that next book! #scribechat
1:34 am teetate: @wholewidewords exactly. One vampire tour in New Orleans and you’ll be off those types of vamps forever. Trust me. #scribechat
1:34 am thedaisyharris: @HeatherMcCorkle Write more books! It’s the only way to go. #scribechat
1:34 am PattyJMurphy: @wholewidewords: Yes, I think passion is a must–and the desire to write to change lives–yours and others:) #scribechat
1:34 am teetate: @HeatherMcCorkle Then you are wise as well as beautiful. :) #scribechat
1:34 am editorialdept: Also important – “Never do anything just because an editor tells you to” #scribechat
1:34 am laurelrusswurm: RT @LiaKeyes: @editorialdept Most important – make peace with ones neuroses and let them fuel the writing! >>isn’t that a given? #scribechat
1:35 am junegoodwin: @LiaKeyes I was traveling over the past few wks (UK included!) so I didn’t get a chance to read it. I’ll lurk on the sidelines. #scribechat
1:35 am HeatherMcCorkle: @thedaisyharris Exactly! That’s why I now have two series on submission instead of just one ;-) #scribechat
1:35 am teetate: @editorialdept I think what I took away from it is that your editor should guide you, not boss you around. #scribechat
1:35 am HeatherMcCorkle: @teetate And you are so sweet I could put you in my coffee! #scribechat
1:35 am teetate: @editorialdept Oh and never piss off your publicist. #scribechat
1:35 am Danisidhe: RT @editorialdept: working on your next book #scribechat << How do you not? It can take YEARS to get a project up!
1:35 am LiaKeyes: @junegoodwin Travel is good for the soul. Did you bring me any English chocolate? ;) #scribechat
1:36 am PattyJMurphy: @editorialdept: Absolutely! You have to be true to your writing…to your story. It’s all about truth. #scribechat
1:36 am teetate: @HeatherMcCorkle :P #scribechat
1:36 am wholewidewords: @teetate After THE PASSAGE, I remembered vamps are predators. But now I kinda want to take that tour! *delicious shiver* #scribechat
1:36 am nathanhenrion: you need that second or third book in the works, midlist pubs may even ask for a partial second work if considering a debut #scribechat
1:36 am Danisidhe: RT @LiaKeyes: make peace with one’s neuroses and let them fuel the writing! #scribechat << She was def. big on that! :)
1:36 am thedaisyharris: @HeatherMcCorkle Yeah, I need to get another series going. I know where current one will be pubbed, so I shld expand my scope. #scribechat
1:36 am LiaKeyes: @laurelrusswurm Yes, a given, but I can never hear it too often, because I’m often stuck/blocked but really it’s self-doubt. #scribechat
1:37 am paulgreci: I read Forest thru Trees about a year ago. Timeless advice. And Betsy’s blog is a must read. Funny but truthful. #scribechat
1:37 am teetate: @wholewidewords it was awesome. You’ll love it. #scribechat
1:37 am editorialdept: Yes – continuing work is good to keep your mind off book release, but essential for when editor/pub. says “What’s next?” #scribechat
1:37 am phoebeeating: @Danisidhe I have a beloved frnd who has been working on one thing for ~a decade. Guess it’s hard to let that first project go #scribechat
1:37 am thedaisyharris: RT @Danisidhe: RT @LiaKeyes: make peace with neuroses and let them fuel the writing! #scribechatWhat else to do w/ neuroses? #scribechat
1:38 am HeatherMcCorkle: Golden advice! RT @nathanhenrion you need 2nd or 3rd in the works, pubs may ask for a partial 2nd work if considering a debut #scribechat
1:38 am Danisidhe: Another takeaway: It’s NEVER a conspiracy not to publish a piece- agents and editors are human, not irrational monsters LOL #scribechat
1:38 am junegoodwin: @LiaKeyes I should have right? Cadburys are way better and thicker there. A fellow was surprised we have Cadburys in the US! #scribechat
1:38 am wholewidewords: @PattyJMurphy Passion is one part. Another factor I observed is determination. Sometimes ruthless ambition helps, too! ;) #scribechat
1:38 am HeatherMcCorkle: @thedaisyharris It can’t hurt! #scribechat
1:38 am laurelrusswurm: @LiaKeyes Isn’t that’s why most of us write? … to work out the demons, vampires or no. #scribechat
1:39 am LiaKeyes: @junegoodwin Yep, it just doesn’t taste the same here. I used to work with Peter Cadbury, very nice English boy. :) #scribechat
1:39 am junegoodwin: @nathanhenrion Good advice. I was wondering about this. #scribechat
1:39 am teetate: Best and simplest advice in the book: patience, patience, patience. #scribechat
1:39 am lioncaller: @nathanhenrion based on what? i have been watching teens in bookstores hunting for ANYTHING else, frustrated #scribechat
1:40 am PattyJMurphy: @wholewidewords: Sure. But, I think passion and determination goes hand in hand. #scribechat
1:40 am phoebeeating: @teetate Hardest advice, too! #scribechat
1:40 am laurelrusswurm: @phoebeeating I would gently suggest your friend put it aside and maybe start another something. #scribechat
1:40 am Danisidhe: @phoebeeating As long as they are happy with it taking that long, and aren’t putting off other projects, that’s fine. #scribechat
1:40 am overdunne: @teetate patience…hmmm. That’s a difficult one in today’s quick paced world. #scribechat
1:41 am LiaKeyes: @laurelrusswurm Many write because they’re hurt and need to exorcise it, but some write from joy. Envy that! #scribechat
1:41 am junegoodwin: @teetate My word! He’s still alive? At least Hagen Daz is still a pint there. It’s reduced to 14 ozs here. What a rip off. #scribechat
1:41 am SHAdams: RT @nathanhenrion: you need that second or third book in the works, midlist pubs may even ask for a partial second work if considering a debut #scribechat
1:41 am PattyJMurphy: @LiaKeyes: Oooh…so you and Roald Dahl have someting in common, yes? #scribechat
1:42 am editorialdept: “Getting even is a great reason for writing” – William Gass #scribechat
1:42 am wholewidewords: RT @LiaKeyes: @laurelrusswurm Many write because theyre hurt and need to exorcise it, but some write from joy. Envy that! #scribechat
1:42 am teetate: @overdunne solid advice, if you can take it, I think. #scribechat
1:42 am phoebeeating: @LiaKeyes I write fiction because I love stories! (but write poetry because I’m emo . . .) #scribechat
1:43 am teetate: @phoebeeating LOL #scribechat
1:43 am nathanhenrion: @lioncaller when the buyers i meet only ask “You got any Vampire books coming out?” #scribechat
1:43 am overdunne: @teetate operative word there is ‘if’ :P #scribechat
1:44 am laurelrusswurm: @LiaKeyes Writing for joy is on good days. But all the life experience (aka baggage) is in the mix. #scribechat
1:44 am LiaKeyes: RT @editorialdept: “Getting even is a great reason for writing” – William Gass #scribechat
1:44 am lioncaller: I write to get voices the hell out of my head. #scribechat
1:44 am lioncaller: That too. RT @editorialdept: “Getting even is a great reason for writing” – William Gass #scribechat
1:44 am teetate: @overdunne lol true, but I think if you work hard enough and want it bad enough you’ll succeed. You get out what you put in. #scribechat
1:44 am phoebeeating: RT @lioncaller: I write to get voices the hell out of my head. #scribechat
1:45 am nathanhenrion: RT @teetate: Best and simplest advice in the book: patience, patience, patience. #scribechat
1:45 am editorialdept: Another good takeaway – write your proposal in voice/style in which you have written or plan to write #scribechat
1:45 am PeterMcL: Am I the only one for whom writing is work? #scribechat
1:45 am LiaKeyes: Dickens was abandoned to a workhouse as a child, when fam. fortunes looked up, they didn’t come back 4 him. Then.. Oliver Twist. #scribechat
1:45 am teetate: I mean, let’s be honest here, writng isn’t always a joy. It’s work. Hard work. For me, it’s the only thing I am passionate about #scribechat
1:45 am laurelrusswurm: RT @phoebeeating: @LiaKeyes I write fiction because I love stories! [Me too!] #scribechat
1:46 am teetate: @PeterMcL not at all. Trust me. #scribechat
1:46 am PattyJMurphy: RT @teetate: @overdunne: If you work hard enough + want it bad enough you’ll succeed. You get out what you put in. <<Amen:) #scribechat
1:46 am Danisidhe: RT @lioncaller: I write to get voices the hell out of my head. #scribechat << Exactly. How one stops to wait to sell a project, I don’t know
1:46 am LiaKeyes: @PeterMcL Define ‘work’… hard work/difficult? A full-time occupation kind of work? #scribechat
1:46 am lioncaller: huh. only saying what i see while browsing. RT @nathanhenrion: buyers i meet only ask “You got any Vampire books coming out?” #scribechat
1:46 am editorialdept: Writers have the occasional effortless day, but most of the time it’s work. Passion for words/story/sharing keeps us going. #scribechat
1:46 am EbonyMcKenna: @petermcl Writing is hard work for me, but I love having written and feel good about it #scribechat
1:46 am phoebeeating: @petermcl Oh, it’s work–but beats data entry, that’s for sure. #scribechat
1:46 am Danisidhe: RT @PeterMcL: Am I the only one for whom writing is work? #scribechat Of course not lol
1:46 am laurelrusswurm: @lioncaller By the end I’m usually rather attached to the voices in my head. #scribechat
1:46 am thedaisyharris: I write to create a world where it all makes sense. ;-) #scribechat
1:47 am wholewidewords: @PeterMcL I write in my own blood. Drip drip drip… #scribechat
1:47 am PeterMcL: @teetate Thanks! I’m encouraged. #scribechat
1:47 am paulgreci: “Writing is nothing if not a long distance race.” Forest for the trees. #scribechat
1:47 am teetate: Marilyn said ‘there were others prettier, et all’ but I wanted it more. #scribechat
1:47 am overdunne: @teetate too true. Patience is not my virtue. Determination…THAT I’ve got in abundance :) #scribechat
1:47 am HeatherMcCorkle: Writing is definitely work but its the most amazing, rewarding kind of work I can possibly imagine. #scribechat
1:47 am teetate: @PeterMcL I tend to want to write the juicy bits. Kills me to write the filler, but I do it bc I <3 the end result. #scribechat
1:48 am PattyJMurphy: @PeterMcL: It’s work for everyone. Richard Peck once said, “Easy writing = bad reading!” I think that’s true. #scribechat
1:48 am phoebeeating: RT @teetate: Marilyn said ‘there were others prettier, et all’ but I wanted it more. #scribechat
1:48 am matthewschulz: Hi, all. Wife’s putting son to bed, so I thought I’d pop in. What’s the word? #scribechat
1:48 am PeterMcL: @LiaKeyes Work in the sense of not just doing what I want or being driven, but doing what is necessary. #scribechat
1:48 am wholewidewords: PERSEVERANCE! That’s the one quality I have. #scribechat
1:49 am teetate: IMHO if you think you’re the best, believe your the best at whatever it is, then you ARE the best. Takes ambition &determination #scribechat
1:49 am LiaKeyes: @matthewschulz Hey! Welcome! We’re chatting about Betsy Lerner’s book The Forest For The Trees and writing motivations, etc #scribechat
1:49 am wholewidewords: @PattyJMurphy Oh, and I love Peck’s work. #scribechat
1:49 am laurelrusswurm: @PeterMcL @teetate Writing is hard work… that’s why writers have to fight tendency to olympic calibre procrastination #scribechat
1:49 am nathanhenrion: writing is the perfect excuse for drinking…”Hey, I’m thinking here! Pour me another!” #scribechat
1:49 am Danisidhe: I found it interesting that she essentially said: pick a form and stick to it. #scribechat
1:49 am matthewschulz: @HeatherMcCorkle: Yeah, anyone who says it’s not work has never been serious about it. #scribechat
1:50 am PeterMcL: I could write six times as much if it wasn’t for the ‘work’ aspects! #scribechat
1:50 am teetate: @laurelrusswurm LOL God yes! #scribechat
1:50 am HeatherMcCorkle: @matthewschulz So true! #scribechat
1:50 am teetate: @matthewschulz exactly! If it was easy, everyone would do…all the time. #scribechat
1:50 am editorialdept: I think Lerner really highlighted the editor’s role in easing a bit of that “work” – providing nudges & guidance where needed #scribechat
1:51 am lioncaller: speaking of different, unsentimental take on vampires, check out Vampire Tapestriy by Suzy Charnas sometime. Predates trend. #scribechat
1:51 am LiaKeyes: Did any of you have a preference for the writer archetypes half of the book or the publishing insights half of the book? #scribechat
1:51 am a_crezo: @laurelrusswurm Can I get a Hallelujah! #scribechat
1:51 am raspee: @HeatherMcCorkle What is the hardest part about writing you think #scribechat
1:51 am wholewidewords: @a_crezo I work in bursts, 2. I meant determination over long haul. I fail, but keep poking round the edges for another way in! #scribechat
1:52 am editorialdept: I’m biased because I work w/ editors all day, but I really think they play an invaluable role. (Good editors, at least) #scribechat
1:52 am LiaKeyes: @editorialdept Yes, I agree, it was interesting to read Lerner’s take on what editors can do to nudge a writer along. #scribechat
1:52 am phoebeeating: @LiaKeyes Def preferred the first half. I think there are other “handbooks” that cover the info there better . . . #scribechat
1:52 am maryfranholm: RT @lioncaller I write to get voices the hell out of my head. #scribechat
1:53 am editorialdept: @LiaKeyes I prefered the archetypes section because it spoke to the writer in me. Pub. industry isn’t such a mystery these days #scribechat
1:53 am teetate: @phoebeeating I agree, but my focus now isn’t getting published, it’s being a better writer. #scribechat
1:53 am editorialdept: “The best editors call attention to those parts of the book that have been bothering the writer, if only on an unconscious lvl” #scribechat
1:53 am LiaKeyes: @editorialdept I liked her advice to enjoy the peace and freedom of writing one’s first book. Subsequent books involve pressure. #scribechat
1:53 am HeatherMcCorkle: @raspee The hardest part for me is pushing through the times when I’m less motivated. Its like a muscle that must be excercised! #scribechat
1:54 am raspee: @nathanhenrion He he wonder if that will fly with my wife… #scribechat
1:54 am a_crezo: @wholewidewords That I’m still writing is testament to my determination, but I have to fight procrastination tooth and nail. LOL #scribechat
1:54 am matthewschulz: @Raspee To me, the hardest part is reining myself in. I like going where things take me, so I write a lot that I’ll never use. #scribechat
1:54 am teetate: And I never want to stop learning about that. @editorialdept is right. No mystery in pub now. #scribechat
1:54 am a_crezo: @teetate A good focus, I think. It’s mine too at this point. #scribechat
1:54 am HeatherMcCorkle: @raspee The muse is a wonderful thing but a powerful writing muscle is even better. #scribechat
1:54 am laurelrusswurm: @LiaKeyes I’d be more interested in the archetypes; since I’m planning to self-pub I doubt it would have much for me #scribechat
1:55 am nathanhenrion: @Raspee probably not…that excuse has never worked #scribechat
1:55 am teetate: @laurelrusswurm how many times do I have to say it? Psychic. Twins. #scribechat
1:55 am phoebeeating: RT @HeatherMcCorkle: @raspee The muse is a wonderful thing but a powerful writing muscle is even better. #scribechat
1:55 am lioncaller: Gotta go. Kid returns from 2.5 mos in allegedly dangerous (per @NewYorker) state of Michoacan, Mex (he had great exper)! Nite #scribechat
1:55 am a_crezo: RT @HeatherMcCorkle: @raspee The muse is a wonderful thing but a powerful writing muscle is even better. #scribechat
1:55 am LiaKeyes: @laurelrusswurm Even as a self-publisher, you could benefit from using a freelance editor, so same info applies… #scribechat
1:55 am editorialdept: The archetypes were helpful because she not only illustrated foibles, but offered solutions specific to each. #scribechat
1:56 am teetate: @lioncaller night, hon #scribechat
1:56 am laurelrusswurm: @teetate :D #scribechat
1:56 am wholewidewords: @a_crezo Procrastination is my nemesis! (& depression, & anxiety, & self-doubt, &, &, &…) #scribechat
1:56 am teetate: @LiaKeyes question for all really: how do you know which freelance editor is the best? #scribechat
1:56 am Danisidhe: @LiaKeyes I was more interested in the 1st part but not because it wasn’t good, just that I’m not interested in “selling” atm. #scribechat
1:56 am LiaKeyes: @lioncaller LOL Good to see you! Go rescue the kids. :) #scribechat
1:56 am teetate: @wholewidewords lol that makes you truly a writer, dear. #scribechat
1:57 am EbonyMcKenna: @LiaKeyes Very true, earlier novels had such freedom, now I’m feeling the pressure (iin a good way) #scribechat
1:57 am a_crezo: @wholewidewords They’re siblings, you know. It makes sense that they’d all be nemeses. :P #scribechat
1:57 am phoebeeating: @editorialdept Def., it was unique, but practical information. #scribechat
1:57 am overdunne: RT @teetate: @LiaKeyes question for all really: how do you know which freelance editor is the best?<–would like 2 know too #scribechat
1:57 am PeterMcL: I should procrastinate, but I keep putting it off. #scribechat
1:57 am Danisidhe: RT @matthewschulz: I write a lot that I’ll never use. #scribechat << We have to. Writing is about choices – not our first thought. :)
1:57 am LiaKeyes: AGREED. I found it freeing advice RT @phoebeeating: @editorialdept Def., it was unique, but practical information. #scribechat
1:57 am teetate: RT @PeterMcL: I should procrastinate, but I keep putting it off. #scribechat
1:58 am EbonyMcKenna: @editorialdept you’ll probably hate me for saying this, but I reckon Bold & Beautiful makes great use of archetypes. #scribechat
1:58 am laurelrusswurm: @LiaKeyes Yes, you’re right; in my infancy i had editorial bg; in the here and now some great beta readers. #scribechat
1:58 am wholewidewords: @a_crezo Yay, I’m in the club! Wait, do I want to be in this club? lol #scribechat
1:58 am LiaKeyes: @overdunne I look at training, work history, preferred genres, etc. No point giving work to a genius editor who hates ur genre #scribechat
1:59 am PeterMcL: One has to be careful not to turn archetypes into stereotypes. #scribechat
1:59 am teetate: RT @PeterMcL: One has to be careful not to turn archetypes into stereotypes. #scribechat
1:59 am a_crezo: @wholewidewords Haha! It’s a draw. #scribechat
1:59 am editorialdept: RT @teetate: how do you know which freelance editor is the best? <–pros offer inexpensive samples-try one & see if you click. #scribechat
1:59 am Danisidhe: @editorialdept Yes. The more passionately a writer reacts to a note, the more they are likely to need it! Deep down, they knew. #scribechat
1:59 am HeatherMcCorkle: Dinner calls. Thanks for the great chat everyone! #scribechat
2:00 am teetate: @LiaKeyes hard to know who to trust, I’m afraid. At least, that’s my experience. #scribechat
2:00 am teetate: @HeatherMcCorkle night, sweetie #scribechat
2:00 am LiaKeyes: @overdunne @teetate And I ask what they’ve edited, and read them, then discuss how much work went into them, and what kind. #scribechat
2:00 am Danisidhe: RT @thedaisyharris:! #scribechat What else to do w/ neuroses? #scribechat << Many spend years fighting them – I know I have :)
2:01 am LiaKeyes: @teetate I very much prefer freelance editors with a strong, recent work background in publishing (ie @drydenbks for kids bks) #scribechat
2:01 am a_crezo: Question: When planning a wip, do you think of characters or overall plot first? I struggle with plot CONSTANTLY. #scribechat
2:01 am teetate: @LiaKeyes @editorialdept thanks. #scribechat
2:02 am editorialdept: Editors on the up & up will be forthcoming about clients, pricing, level of work/editing/coaching/mentoring, etc. #scribechat
2:02 am PeterMcL: @a_crezo My fav question! I’m odd: I work out the plot, then design the chars required to make it happen. #scribechat
2:02 am teetate: @a_crezo Constant struggle. Every writer is diff & what wrks for one won’t wrk for all. I get an idea, then flesh out plot. #scribechat
2:02 am a_crezo: I think it’s my thought process (so introverted); I can’t step outside of mindset and into action. #scribechat
2:02 am Danisidhe: RT @LiaKeyes: No point giving work to a genius editor who hates ur genre #scribechat << Or a “genius” teacher that does the same…
2:03 am LiaKeyes: @a_crezo Each story is diff (re story/characters first). If your theme is what fascinates you, that will suggest char & problem #scribechat
2:03 am teetate: @a_crezo I think the important thing is to just write. See what happens but don’t use excuse. Just write. #scribechat
2:03 am editorialdept: I usually get a germ of plot idea, then flesh out plot & characters concurrently. #scribechat
2:03 am matthewschulz: @a_crezo I tend to think plot first, though I definitely struggle with plot all the time too. #scribechat
2:03 am thedaisyharris: Another reason to write: wonky worldview. For some, writing is the only way to make sense of it. #scribechat
2:03 am a_crezo: @PeterMcL I’m the opposite! I have characters but no story. It’s frustrating. #scribechat
2:03 am phoebeeating: @a_crezo plotplotplot. Characters come as the story develops . . . #scribechat
2:03 am overdunne: @LiaKeyes I’ve reached the point in my editing where I love/hate my ms at the same time–need objective eyes #scribechat
2:04 am teetate: @a_crezo play the ‘what if’ game. It helps me. #scribechat
2:04 am teetate: @phoebeeating same for me. #scribechat
2:04 am thedaisyharris: @editorialdept I often take the biggest jerk in my story- and turn him into the hero of the next one. ;-) #scribechat
2:04 am LiaKeyes: @a_crezo If a certain character type interests you, then consider what that person would consider a problem, and solve it. #scribechat
2:04 am editorialdept: on that note, I’d be wary of any “genius” editor. Editor’s ego should be checked @ the door. They provide service, not orders #scribechat
2:04 am raspee: @HeatherMcCorkle Yes I agree… I guess you could call it the cranial brute force! #scribechat
2:05 am teetate: King says plot isn’t important. The story is. #scribechat
2:05 am wholewidewords: @teetate You stole the tweet write out of my hands. “What If” rocks! #scribechat
2:05 am PeterMcL: @a_crezo How to plot from characters: work out what they want, and stop them getting it! #scribechat
2:05 am LiaKeyes: @a_crezo Story/plot is all about conflict/problems/question. Nothing else. Without those you have no story. #scribechat
2:05 am laurelrusswurm: @a_crezo me too… i outline then plug in characters, then let the characters fight for the outline they want. #scribechat
2:05 am a_crezo: What I’ve done with my current WIP is design a situation. Now I have to figure out how each character reacts in- and externally. #scribechat
2:05 am raspee: @nathanhenrion Yeah that’s what I thought! he he… Thought I’d try #scribechat
2:05 am teetate: @wholewidewords lol sorry! Great minds and all. Either that or we’ve read the same books. #scribechat
2:05 am LiaKeyes: FUN! RT @thedaisyharris: @editorialdept I often take the biggest jerk in my story- & turn him into the hero of the next one. ;-) #scribechat
2:05 am a_crezo: @PeterMcL Great advice :) I just wrote that down. #scribechat
2:06 am phoebeeating: Oh man, I’m exhausted. Have a little #writing to do before bed . . . goodnight, scribes! #scribechat
2:06 am editorialdept: Love this idea! RT @thedaisyharris: I often take the biggest jerk in my story- & turn him into the hero of the next one. ;-) #scribechat
2:06 am LiaKeyes: @a_crezo Yes, and not just how character reacts, but what action they decide to take to solve situational problem. Then… #scribechat
2:07 am laurelrusswurm: @teetate and keep writing even if you feel a block coming on. Write now. Rewrite later. #scribechat
2:07 am wholewidewords: “Genius” teachers, editors, mentors: Remember, many have their own agendas! They have to make a living and promote, too! #scribechat
2:07 am LiaKeyes: @a_crezo How the antagonist will react to protagonist’s action. Cause and effect. #scribechat
2:07 am teetate: @phoebeeating night, honey. May send an update soon. Thanks so much for the critique! #scribechat
2:07 am raspee: @matthewschulz Its like me taking pictures… I recently realized I have been taking snaps that have no visual value! #scribechat
2:07 am teetate: @laurelrusswurm exactly #scribechat
2:07 am PeterMcL: @a_crezo ‘Reacts’ is critical but insufficient: they must have (motivated) goals which are thwarted. #scribechat
2:08 am LiaKeyes: Well put! RT @PeterMcL: @a_crezo Reacts is critical but insufficient: they must have (motivated) goals which are thwarted. #scribechat
2:08 am a_crezo: This is my new favorite place. I heart you, @teetate. #scribechat
2:08 am a_crezo: RT @PeterMcL: @a_crezo Reacts is critical but insufficient: they must have (motivated) goals which are thwarted. #scribechat
2:08 am LiaKeyes: Awww :) RT @a_crezo: This is my new favorite place. I heart you, @teetate. #scribechat
2:09 am teetate: @a_crezo I heart you back, bess fran. Also, invaluable site: http://hollylisle.com/fm/ #scribechat
2:09 am wholewidewords: @teetate I’ve really only read a couple of books on writing.The one I like best (so far) is Anne Lamott’s BIRD BY BIRD. #scribechat
2:09 am teetate: @wholewidewords Haven’t read that one. I get my ‘wisdom’ from Uncle Stevie. :) #scribechat
2:09 am Danisidhe: @a_crezo No part develops on its own – it’s all connected. The key is writing out all the possibilities and making your choices. #scribechat
2:10 am teetate: @phoebeeating Night, doll. you rock! #scribechat
2:10 am PeterMcL: @LiaKeyes Thanks, Ma’am! :) #scribechat
2:10 am a_crezo: @wholewidewords @teetate Bird by Bird is a FANTASTIC book. One of my faves. #scribechat
2:10 am laurelrusswurm: Thanks for an interesting chat… now i’ll have to check the book just to see :) G’night all. #scribechat
2:10 am raspee: @HeatherMcCorkle So seriously though.. I’d imagine one is not born with it! How do you train that #scribechat
2:10 am LiaKeyes: @PeterMcL It’s easier to do this if you consider that the protagonist is the one who is causing the antagonist problems. ;) #scribechat
2:11 am teetate: @laurelrusswurm night, hon. great chatting w/ you #scribechat
2:11 am overdunne: S King (On Writing) “…for all have sinned and fallen short of editorial perfection”<–I’m a sinner for sure :) #scribechat
2:11 am teetate: @a_crezo Gonna have to check it out. #scribechat
2:11 am teetate: RT @overdunne: S King (On Writing) “…for all have sinned and fallen short of editorial perfection”<–Im a sinner for sure :) #scribechat
2:11 am wholewidewords: @teetate The question I’ve been asking myself lately is, “So what?” I write something, look at it, and think if it has value. #scribechat
2:12 am nathanhenrion: @teetate…later, thanks for letting me crash your shindig #scribechat
2:12 am teetate: @wholewidewords then ask yourself, ‘how is this advancing the plot?’ ‘Is this really necessary?’ #scribechat
2:12 am wholewidewords: @a_crezo I’m spoiled for all other writing books after B by B!! #scribechat
2:12 am overdunne: @wholewidewords re: ‘so what?’ I like that idea #scribechat
2:12 am matthewschulz: #scribechat My biggest struggle is setting. I feel like my 1st draft is about getting the story out. I’ll worry with setting in 2nd. Weird?
2:12 am LiaKeyes: Please visit the blog post and vote in the poll for which book you’d like to read next!http://scribechat.com/archives/2601 #scribechat
2:13 am teetate: @nathanhenrion LOL it isn’t mine, but I’m so glad you came by. We’re here every Thursday. #scribechat
2:13 am wholewidewords: @teetate It’s amazing how much ISN’T necessary! #scribechat
2:13 am Danisidhe: @wholewidewords “So what?” Is a great question but probably best kept for after you’ve finished, or it might paralyze you! #scribechat
2:14 am editorialdept: Don’t forget to join the email list if you’d like to discuss Forest for the Trees (and other books) in more than 140 characters! #scribechat
2:14 am editorialdept: http://groups.google.com/group/scribechat-books #scribechat
2:14 am teetate: @matthewschulz *cracks knuckles* For me, setting is almost as imprt as plot and conflict. It should be almost another character #scribechat
2:14 am LiaKeyes: For ongoing e-mail discussion of writing books, join http://groups.google.com/group/scribechat-books #scribechat
2:14 am a_crezo: @teetate @wholewidewords “So what?” and “What if?” I like those. #scribechat
2:14 am wholewidewords: @overdunne Thanks! It helps me push myself creatively. #scribechat
2:14 am PeterMcL: @matthewschulz Then I’m weird too. I begrudge having to describe setting. Often, it isn’t relevant anyway. #scribechat
2:14 am teetate: @wholewidewords Then chop, chop, chop. You could have stores of stuff u don’t need, but sometimes ‘u’ need it. Ya know? #scribechat
2:15 am Danisidhe: @matthewschulz Not weird at all, if by setting you mean description. #scribechat
2:15 am japanmama: RT @Danisidhe RT @matthewschulz: I write a lot that I’ll never use. #scribechat We have to, it’s about choices – not our first thought
2:15 am EbonyMcKenna: #scribechat Thanks for a fab chat – freshly motivated and inspired.
2:15 am wholewidewords: @Danisidhe You definitely have a point there. Paralysis is a big problem for this newbie. #scribechat
2:15 am teetate: @PeterMcL It’s not like that for everyone, but I’m a ‘southern’ writer. We love setting. #scribechat
2:15 am PeterMcL: I have trouble with the ‘chop chop’ aspect. I can boil my stories (and all others?) down to ‘MC won.’ #scribechat
2:16 am LiaKeyes: @PeterMcL @matthewschulz Fundamental differences in the way women and men write (ie descriptions, feelings vs what happens) Y/N? #scribechat
2:16 am Danisidhe: @teetate @matthewschulz But that’s not necessary for every story or every writer. A story should have a ‘place’ though. #scribechat
2:16 am a_crezo: RT @EbonyMcKenna: #scribechat Thanks for a fab chat – freshly motivated and inspired. // so glad I sat in tonight. :) #scribechat
2:16 am teetate: And by setting, I mean place. Description for me = all senses. #scribechat
2:16 am thedaisyharris: @PeterMcL I love setting. Hate stories where I wonder “where is this taking place?” Top of Eiffel Tower? Mars? Bottom of Ocean? #scribechat
2:16 am wholewidewords: @teetate You’re so right! I hadn’t considered it that way. #scribechat
2:16 am LiaKeyes: @wholewidewords Sometimes the less you know the better off you are until the first draft is finished. Overthinking crippled me. #scribechat
2:16 am teetate: @Danisidhe that’s what I meant, ‘place’ #scribechat
2:17 am teetate: @wholewidewords :P #scribechat
2:17 am bestofraspee: RT @LiaKeyes: For ongoing e-mail discussion of writing books, joinhttp://groups.google.com/group/scribechat-books #scribechat
2:17 am a_crezo: @teetate: “Im a southern writer. We love setting.” // I’ve noticed the trend. Beautiful atmosphere in southern novels. #scribechat
2:17 am PeterMcL: @LiaKeyes Fundamental differences? Y I think (as a generalisation, of course). Perhaps also mirrored in readers’ tastes? #scribechat
2:17 am LiaKeyes: @a_crezo @EbonyMcKenna Glad you both got something out of the chat! Go forth and write words! #scribechat
2:17 am teetate: I have written plenty: backgrounds, biographies that will never make it to the page. I know and that’s all I needed. #scribechat
2:18 am wholewidewords: @LiaKeyes I overthink about my overthinking! Is there no end? #scribechat
2:18 am teetate: @a_crezo Try to imagine a story set in New Orleans w/o description. Impossible. #scribechat
2:18 am LiaKeyes: @PeterMcL I think it would make for an interesting chat topic for another week – I’m sure we’d find a lot to discuss! #scribechat
2:18 am a_crezo: @LiaKeyes Definitely feeling writerly. Love this place. #scribechat
2:18 am overdunne: RT @wholewidewords: @LiaKeyes I overthink about my overthinking! Is there no end? <– Me too! Hence the love/hate w my ms… #scribechat
2:19 am a_crezo: @teetate And boooooring. #scribechat
2:19 am Danisidhe: @wholewidewords Remember, no-one need ever see what you write. Just get it down. You can’t edit what you haven’t written :) #scribechat
2:19 am teetate: Or, I should say, New Orleans w/o ‘being’ in the city. Just can’t be done. IMHO #scribechat
2:19 am dlschubert: @LiaKeyes Have I missed this? ARGH!!! #scribechat
2:19 am PeterMcL: @LiaKeyes Agreed! #scribechat
2:20 am LiaKeyes: @overdunne Overthinkers need to get back in touch with the core fascination of their story, the genesis of it. #scribechat
2:20 am wholewidewords: TRUTH: RT @Danisidhe: Remember, no-one need ever see what you write. Just get it down. You cant edit what you havent written :) #scribechat
2:20 am matthewschulz: @LiaKeyes @petermcl V interesting idea. There may be something to that. #Scribechat
2:20 am LiaKeyes: LOL Not to worry! There’ll be another time, another book. :) RT @dlschubert: @LiaKeyes Have I missed this? ARGH!!! #scribechat
2:20 am a_crezo: RT @wholewidewords I’m spoiled for all other writing books after B by B!! // Lamott is genius. Loved “shitty first drafts.” LOL #scribechat
2:21 am teetate: @a_crezo what’s the title again? #scribechat
2:21 am a_crezo: @teetate Very, bess fran. Like a coffeeshop only on twitter. LOL #scribechat
2:21 am dlschubert: @LiaKeyes Is it 9PM EST every Thursday? #scribechat
2:21 am wholewidewords: @LiaKeyes The core being, “why I need to tell this” rather than “why will people read it”? #scribechat
2:21 am editorialdept: brb- having an a/c emergency and the tech just showed up #scribechat
2:21 am a_crezo: @teetate Bird by Bird: Some Advice on Writing and Life #scribechat
2:22 am teetate: @a_crezo I know! I ALWAYS write after getting off of here. I think everyone does. #scribechat
2:22 am LiaKeyes: YES, absolutely! RT @wholewidewords: @LiaKeyes The core being, “why I need to tell this” rather than “why will people read it”? #scribechat
2:22 am LiaKeyes: No worries! RT @editorialdept: brb- having an a/c emergency and the tech just showed up #scribechat
2:23 am wholewidewords: @a_crezo LOL me too! Plus how her students kept asking about agents and she would sigh and try to keep them focused on WRITING! #scribechat
2:23 am PeterMcL: @Danisidhe Wow! I like that idea! So I’m not doing the thing wrong, I’m doing the wrong thing. #scribechat
2:23 am LiaKeyes: I always consider what I would do if I could only publish one book before I died. What would I want to say? #scribechat
2:23 am a_crezo: @teetate :D #scribechat
2:23 am overdunne: @LiaKeyes agree…loved ms the first 5 times or so. Prob w discovering twitter etc is so many ideas they get jammed on way out! #scribechat
2:23 am a_crezo: @wholewidewords I loved the chapter on jealousy. She’s so honest. #scribechat
2:24 am LiaKeyes: That’s GREAT! RT @teetate: @a_crezo I know! I ALWAYS write after getting off of here. I think everyone does. #scribechat
2:24 am matthewschulz: Def will give a sense of place with the story. Story’s not complete without it. It’s just not the first thing I think about. #scribechat
2:24 am a_crezo: RT @LiaKeyes I always consider what I would do if I could only publish one book before I died. What would I want to say?/Enough! #scribechat
2:25 am PeterMcL: “getting off of here”? I REALLY need to read things more closely. *blushes* #scribechat
2:25 am a_crezo: @teetate Best thing all week. Oh frabjuous Thursdays! #scribechat
2:25 am teetate: @editorialdept It’s happened before for sure. Harper Lee (though she isn’t dead) and Margaret Mitchell…who, um, is #scribechat
2:25 am LiaKeyes: @matthewschulz You can give a sense of place through action, what character handles, fights with, argues about. Not info dump #scribechat
2:25 am wholewidewords: @a_crezo Her honesty and humility are amazing. She writes like I want to: funny, bold, and gently wise. #scribechat
2:25 am teetate: @a_crezo lol knew you’d love it. #scribechat
2:26 am Danisidhe: @petermcl Maybe, but I’m back to novels because I want to create my own worlds/chars etc & screenwriters rarely get to do that. #scribechat
2:26 am teetate: Despite my grumpy mood, I still love #scribechat #scribechat
2:26 am a_crezo: @wholewidewords And unguarded. She just lays *everything* out there. It’s intimidating and inspiring. #scribechat
2:27 am Danisidhe: @petermcl Not for the work they are paid for, anyway… #scribechat
2:27 am LiaKeyes: @Danisidhe NY agent Don Maass would agree about leaving out the boring bits in novels, as well as screenplays. #scribechat
2:27 am a_crezo: @teetate Of course: TWINS! #scribechat
2:27 am overdunne: On that note, I’m going to work for a bit on un-jamming ideas. I heart #scribechat
2:27 am teetate: @a_crezo grumpy twins or psychic ones? #scribechat
2:27 am LiaKeyes: RT @overdunne: On that note, Im going to work for a bit on un-jamming ideas. I heart #scribechat
2:28 am teetate: @overdunne I’m pretty sure #scribechat hearts you back. This #scribechatter does. #scribechat
2:28 am wholewidewords: @LiaKeyes I’ve been so hung up on the “why will people read this” thing. Glad you brought up getting back to our core. #scribechat
2:28 am TheSmokingPoet: @Danisidhe Imagine many write to change the world, make it right in our own way. Writing as therapy,solving world problems. #scribechat
2:28 am LiaKeyes: @overdunne Happy scribbling! Free write. Drink a glass of wine to shut up your internal critic #scribechat
2:28 am overdunne: @teetate awww…you’re sweet :) #scribechat
2:28 am LiaKeyes: Absolutely! RT @teetate: @overdunne Im pretty sure #scribechat hearts you back. This #scribechatterdoes. #scribechat
2:29 am teetate: @PublishingSpy cheers! #scribechat
2:29 am Danisidhe: @matthewschulz Better for a first draft to have more story and less setting than more setting and less story! Go for it. #scribechat
2:29 am teetate: @overdunne :) #scribechat
2:29 am AudryT: @LiaKeyes When I miss #scribechat it’s usually b/c I’m writing! Tho’ tonight I’m just putting together a deck of writer’s block cards.
2:29 am a_crezo: @teetate Haha, psychic. I’m not at all grumpy. Today :P #scribechat
2:29 am overdunne: @LiaKeyes Oooooh…wine would be good right now! Night, night, and thanks for the great #scribechat
2:29 am matthewschulz: @LiaKeyes That’s what I’ve done to this pt. Where the story happens drives most everything. I just haven’t added tons of descrip #scribechat
2:29 am LiaKeyes: @TheSmokingPoet Yes, I think that’s true. In our stories we can set the world right, and smite the evil-doers! #scribechat
2:29 am TheSmokingPoet: Place, setting, often like more characters in story, their own dialogue, if not always in words but appealing to senses. #scribechat
2:30 am LiaKeyes: @AudryT Writer’s Block cards for yourself or general consumption? #scribechat
2:30 am Danisidhe: @LiaKeyes Oh absolutely, but the six year old me who boasted that she doesn’t write “the boring bits” was just being lazy LOL! #scribechat
2:30 am teetate: @matthewschulz Well, I wrote a short in my WIP universe & that and this chat helped me sort out the issues I was having. #scribechat
2:31 am LiaKeyes: @Danisidhe ROFL! I’m pretty lazy myself. Why write the boring bits? If I think they’re boring, so will the reader… #scribechat
2:31 am Danisidhe: @LiaKeyes Loved The Fire in Fiction btw – more than Breakout Novel. Should def be on the list! #scribechat
2:31 am AudryT: For consumption! Trying out a DIY card deck company. RT@LiaKeyes: Writer’s Block cards for yourself or general consumption? #scribechat
2:31 am teetate: @TheSmokingPoet: EXACTLY why I love setting #scribechat
2:31 am dlschubert: No better advice was ever given: RT@LiaKeyes Happy scribbling! Free write. Drink a glass of wine to shut up your internal critic #scribechat
2:32 am LiaKeyes: @Danisidhe Interesting! Why did you like Fire in Fiction more? #scribechat
2:32 am TheSmokingPoet: @LiaKeyes It’s been confirmed that art in any medium, perhaps writing most, is therapy. Helps us understand selves, others. #scribechat
2:32 am AudryT: @LiaKeyes As in, you design the card game or deck, they do production, you sell it. I can’t resist. ^_^ #scribechat
2:32 am matthewschulz: Well, thx for the input, y’all. Happy writing. See you next time. #scribechat
2:33 am teetate: @matthewschulz night! Great chatting w/ you #scribechat
2:33 am a_crezo: Alas, I am off the Internets for tonight. Thanks for the awesome chat and advice. You guys rock! #scribechat
2:33 am wholewidewords: Going to sign off, #scribechatters. Lots to think about..but not OVERthink, lol! Thanks to all for your wisdom & humor. :) #scribechat
2:33 am LiaKeyes: @matthewschulz ‘Night, Matthew! Look forward to chatting with you again soon. :) #scribechat
2:33 am teetate: @a_crezo night sweetie. #scribechat
2:33 am TheSmokingPoet: @teetate Setting is so important. Can’t have characters in a vacuum. #scribechat
2:34 am LiaKeyes: @AudryT Interesting! I want to see what you come up with! Or a link or whatever. #scribechat
2:34 am teetate: @wholewidewords Night! Thnks for mentioning the book #scribechat
2:34 am teetate: @TheSmokingPoet exactly. It is so important…gotta have place #scribechat
2:34 am a_crezo: @teetate Night, Bess Fran! Much frenzied scribbling tomorrow :) #scribechat
2:34 am Danisidhe: @LiaKeyes Absolutely, but that 6 year old was not a good judge! Coming from screenwriting, though, I am a little too efficient! #scribechat
2:34 am LiaKeyes: To continue the discussion of great books on writing, join: http://groups.google.com/group/scribechat-books #scribechat
2:35 am teetate: @a_crezo YAY! I’ll be on googletalk tomorrow night. Smooch! #scribechat
2:35 am LiaKeyes: To vote or suggest next book respond to poll questions here: http://scribechat.com/archives/2601#scribechat
2:36 am AudryT: @LiaKeyes Sure. I’m going to tweet about using them so others can get a sense if they’re any good. #scribechat
2:36 am PeterMcL: For me, the story is WHAT happens. I only care about where if it affects what happens. I know, I’m a heretic. #scribechat
2:36 am TheSmokingPoet: RT @LiaKeyes: To vote or suggest next book respond to poll questions here:http://scribechat.com/archives/2601 #scribechat
2:37 am teetate: RT @LiaKeyes: To vote or suggest next book respond to poll questions here:http://scribechat.com/archives/2601 #scribechat
2:37 am LiaKeyes: Anyone interested in weekly wordcount Write-A-Thons? Or freewriting sessions? #scribechat
2:37 am Danisidhe: @LiaKeyes Because Fire in Fiction was about passion and authenticity, whereas Breakout left a lot of that out. #scribechat
2:37 am teetate: @PeterMcL LOL you so are!!! heh #scribechat
2:37 am LiaKeyes: YES! RT @PeterMcL: For me, the story is WHAT happens. I only care about where if it affects what happens. I know, Im a heretic. #scribechat
2:37 am teetate: @LiaKeyes You know I am. Anything that puts me on a deadline I love. #scribechat
2:38 am LiaKeyes: @Danisidhe I liked the nuts and bolts advice of Writing the Breakout Novel #scribechat
2:39 am LiaKeyes: @teetate Do you all have a day or night when you write and would like a prompt or an hour of shared freewriting? #scribechat
2:40 am LiaKeyes: I don’t mean that we would share our writing, but that we would share the experience and check in at the end of an hour #scribechat
2:40 am Danisidhe: @LiaKeyes Nuts and bolts indeed, and well done, but little you can’t find elsewhere. #scribechat
2:40 am teetate: @LiaKeyes well, I can’t write at work. The old ppl r 2 distracting, but I could do either prompt or freewriting. I’m flexible. #scribechat
2:40 am EbonyMcKenna: @LiaKeyes Same here, I’m a huge fan of Writing the Breakout Novel. #scribechat
2:41 am LiaKeyes: @teetate What’s a good time for you? #scribechat
2:41 am teetate: @LiaKeyes and pretty much any night of the week is fine except Sunday bc well, #trueblood :) #scribechat
2:41 am Danisidhe: @LiaKeyes Also, Breakout seemed a little too easily construed as a formula for those who write to be published and get famous. #scribechat
2:41 am EbonyMcKenna: OK, it’s nearly 1pm and I have friends coming for dinner – might need to get some ingredients or we’ll be eating dust! #scribechat
2:42 am LiaKeyes: HA HA!!! RT @teetate: @LiaKeyes and pretty much any night of the week is fine except Sunday bc well, #trueblood :) #scribechat
2:42 am Danisidhe: @LiaKeyes I guess Fire in Fiction was about the missing ingredient! :) #scribechat
2:42 am teetate: @EbonyMcKenna oh yummy, whatcha cooking? :P Have fun! Keep writing! #scribechat
2:42 am LiaKeyes: @EbonyMcKenna Give them enough wine and a taxi home and they won’t care! :) #scribechat
2:43 am teetate: @LiaKeyes heh, it’s a compulsion. Oh and anytime after six central is good for me. #scribechat
2:44 am LiaKeyes: @teetate Okay, I’ll think on it and let you know (re freewriting hour) #scribechat
2:45 am jflamingo2: Simply sorry that I missed my writer friends at #scribechat tonight. I am glad that I can still read & learn from the transcript:) @LiaKeyes
2:45 am Danisidhe: @editorialdept @LiaKeyes Thanks for a great chat! Looking forward to the next book! Off to have lunch and then write :) #scribechat
2:45 am LiaKeyes: ABSOLUTELY! RT @Danisidhe: RT @teetate: any night of the week is fine except Sunday bc well, #trueblood :) and #storycraft!! :D #scribechat
2:45 am teetate: @LiaKeyes that’s fine with me. I’ll await your email. :P #scribechat
2:45 am LiaKeyes: ‘Night all! Thanks for the fascinating chat! #scribechat
2:46 am LiaKeyes: @jflamingo2 I’ll tweet when the transcript is up in a little bit. How are you? #scribechat
2:47 am LiaKeyes: Virtual brownies for chat pals at #scribechat
2:47 am LiaKeyes: http://twitpic.com/29vzhj #scribechat
2:47 am teetate: Guys, don’t forget to RT each others #blogs solidarity ya know? Night, great chat as always. #scribechat
2:48 am LiaKeyes: RT @teetate: Guys, dont forget to RT each others #blogs solidarity ya know? Night, great chat as always. #scribechat
2:54 am overdunne: @LiaKeyes re: brownies. Oh. My. Goodness. Those look delish. Must root around for some chocolate… #scribechat
2:55 am Lauralynnpoetry: RT @teetate: King says plot isn’t important. The story is. #scribechat
3:30 am inkgypsy: RT @LiaKeyes: RT @teetate: Guys, dont forget to RT each others #blogs solidarity ya know? Night, great chat as always. #scribechat
3:30 am teetate: I’d like to point out sadly, there was *no* mention of @jk_rowling or Potter once in tonight’s #scribechatin case u were wondering. :)
3:30 am raspee: @HeatherMcCorkle I hear you… stick through it.. fight it! Thanks. You are the best #scribechat
3:31 am HeatherMcCorkle: I loved tonight’s #Scribechat so much I had to write about it! http://tinyurl.com/32ywaag #writing#writetip
3:32 am teetate: RT @HeatherMcCorkle: I loved tonight’s #Scribechat so much I had to write about it!http://tinyurl.com/32ywaag #writing #writetip

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{ 2 comments… read them below or add one }

1 Danielle July 29, 2010 at 10:12 pm

Had a great time, guys – many thanks!

@Danisidhe/@Story_Craft

2 Lia Keyes
Twitter:
August 3, 2010 at 7:54 pm

Thanks for joining us! I would have joined you on Sunday but I was at a four day writers conference. Back at my desk now, though, and looking forward to this week’s exchanges!

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